Posts by Separation of Powers

113

How to accept the actions of the Old Testament God

by confusedandalone in

jw
friends

how are we able to do this.. this is not an attempt to stir the pot or cause confusion but i was sitting here thinking of all the really horrid things that the old testament god did to people.

when i was a jw i just purposely put it to the back of my mind always trying to make an excuse.

when i was in field service and someone would ask me about it i would just change the subject.. however i have been reading alot of info lately here about how wonderful jesus is and how he is a direct representation of what god the father would be.

Separation of Powers

That, my friend, is the ultimate question!

If one is to believe that the Bible is inspired, then one MUST believe and accept the actions of the Supreme Being as being just and right. I love how many, not just the organization, strive to harmonize actions that are blatantly jealous, petty, cruel, or sadistic, to the same God of which Jesus spoke.

One of the principal stories, besides of course the story in Judges 19 of the concubine that is brutally raped and dies, then cut into 12 pieces and sent to the twelve tribes, is the story of the Judge, that's right "JUDGE" Jepthah. I know the organization has tried to discount the actual words of this story, but many jewish scholars would argue that when Jepthah said, "whatever comes out to meet me will be offered up as a burnt offering," he meant it. Therefore, we have this innocent girl come meet her warrior father and he offers her up to the Supreme Being. There is NO scriptural evidence that THAT did not happen just as he had stated. None. In fact, the Bible states that the virgin girls cried for her every year...

Try to reconcile THAT with your New Testament God of love.

SOP

15

Sometimes you just want to scream

by Separation of Powers in

well, i have been posting here on and off for a while now.

it is good to see the progress that so many have made.

i have appreciated your experiences, your humour, your struggles, etc.. as i sit here today, i realize that i have made progress as well.

Separation of Powers

Well, I have been posting here on and off for a while now. It is good to see the progress that so many have made. I have appreciated your experiences, your humour, your struggles, etc.

As I sit here today, I realize that I have made progress as well. Sure, not to the extent of some on this forum, but, all the same...progress. But my problem, to tell you the truth, is that it isn't fast enough. You see, I have always been a "producer." A "get things done" personality that when faced with a problem I find the solution and then attack it head on. With this, though, this whole "witness" thing, I am getting anxious. I look around at the hall and see faces of people that nod their heads and raise their hands, yet, I see no semblance of understanding or even caring to. I hear some of the canned responses to questions, I hear complete fabrications of revisionism spouted off as fact and I am about to scream.

Now, as many of you, I realize just what that "scream" will bring about. It's repercussions will be felt for the rest of my life and those of my family. But, I am at the point where I am having tremendous difficulty contending with the internal struggle. I feel like the character in the painting The Scream by Edvard Munch, ready to cry out, yet too contemplative to do so.

Sorry for the rant, I think many know of what I speak.

SOP

16

what have you learned since leaving ?

by man in black in

jw
friends

since leaving the jw religion,what can you say that you have learned about life/people in a positive way that you probably would have never experienced.

if you had remained a witness ?.

my story is regarding this :.

Separation of Powers

man in black,

I have learned that no matter what you have done for this organization, no matter what you have done for the brothers, no matter what sacrifices you may have made along the way, when you are sick and laying on your death bed, there will only be a handful of people, typically family, that will even care.

Sure there may be a large group that attend the funeral, but their reason (in my estimation) is that they feel obligated and are concerned that others will "notice" if they aren't there. After its over, they won't call, they won't drop by, they won't "help out." You are completely, totally, and utterly on your own.

It is all part of the process of belonging to the organization. No one really has a true and meaningful relationship with anyone else. It is all dependent on something else. It is, again in my opinion, the reason why Paul stated that there would be "no natural affection." I have come to believe that where love is preached loneliness exists because why do you need to preach love if Christ's followers were recognizably "loving."

A friend on mine once told me when he left the organization that he no longer had the desire to live forever. I was confused and asked him "why?" He said, "Why would I want to live forever with a bunch of people who don't care about me now?" I have learned the value of that perspective.

SOP

30

New! Borg instruct to report tract placements

by pixel in

there's a new letter coming up next week to be read instructing the publishers to begin reporting the number of tracts placed in the ministry, including copies of kingdom news 38, annual invitations, district handbills and other tracts.

lol.

see, the borg is allegue about numbers, and why on earth do they tell you to start counting placement in the middle of a campaing, like the one they are doing now witk kingdom news 38 and not before it started??.

Separation of Powers

Numbers, numbers, numbers.....

18

Were You Tough On Your Fellow Witnesses?

by minimus in

jw
friends

when i was younger, i saw things as a young, inexperienced man.

i thought i knew it all, but time would prove otherwise.

i believed that as long as you accepted "mother's" counsel, then everyone should just follow jehovah's organization's guidance.. i realized some witnesses actually loved that thought, that it's either black or white.

Separation of Powers

Minimus

Thank you for sharing, Minimus.

I was the typical young elder, very pragmatic and by-the-book. CO's loved me. If they were head-hunting, they knew just who would be up for a fight. When it came to what the organization said, it was more gospel than THE gospel. I was brash at times. Self-assured about my knowledge of the process (because that's really all the organization is about in my opinion) and the answer man when it came to where it was written, in what KM or letter. A real company man.

As I matured, I began to recognize the difference between being an overseer and being a shepherd. Throughout the entire process however, I was never tough on the young people, at least none that I recall. Even in judicial cases, I would allow the young person to make the decision if he or she felt that they were repentant and "wanted" to remain in the organization. I am proud of the fact that I helped out a lot of people. Some sick, some dying, some old, some depressed and downtrodden. I have good memories of helping people through hard times. I am sure, however, there are some whose memories of me are not as pleasant.

I have given up that part of my life and it's interesting, I do not miss any aspect of it in the slightest. I see through the veil of mock humility and the power base. I have prayed for forgiveness where, in my enthusiam, I stepped on toes or hurt people's feelings. I realize, however, that I was simply playing a part in an already convoluted and very imperfect process, a man made process.

SOP

18

Why are they so quick to shun?

by Crazyguy in

cedars story made me wonder why are parents and loved ones so quick to shun??

i mean it can be shown biblically that only people that do not believe in jesus as the messiah are apostates.

thessalonians tells us to keep admonishing one as a 'brother' and jesus christ himself said to love your enemies.

Separation of Powers

It is part of the indoctrination. It is my belief that JWs are taught to NOT create meaningful relationships with anyone, particularly their families. In that way, it is easier to cut the ties when the time comes and eventually in some way or another it comes. It all starts with the "we are privileged" mentality. The "special" insight into spiritual things that moves JW's to criticize or look down on every other religion as foolish or evil. With that mindset, than it moves to "I am more special than you." And if "I am more special than you" then "you" don't really matter now do you?

Father to DF'd daughter: How can you be so selfish?

daughter: why do you listen to what the organization tells you?

Father to DF'd daughter: because I want to live forever.

daughter: Then who's being selfish?

SOP

71

Trying to overcome my homophobia.

by Julia Orwell in

jw
friends

i had a music album by a gay guy before i was a jw and had no problem listening to it.

it's good music.

some of the lyrics are what you might call 'gay', that is there's some talk about boyfriends, gay bars, and queens and the intolerance the artist encountered as a gay man.

Separation of Powers

@ JuliaOrwell

First, get rid of the guilt....It doesn't help you or the issue that you are contending with.

Second, reach out to someone who can help you "mend" the mindset.

Years ago, I contended with the realization that my JW background had made be an arse of the highest degree, judgmental, reactionary, prejudiced. Most of these were passive, but still prevalent in my mindset. I have a saying written on a piece of paper on my post-it board.

"Indoctrinated to judge everyone, we sometimes become our own jury."

Good luck, the first step is recognition.

SOP

154

Why Eve sinned (WT 8/2013)

by EdenOne in

adamah brought up in another thread an issue i wasn't aware of, and i thought it merged well with something i've been pondering about.

it revolves around the deeper reasons why satan was successful in persuading eve to eat from the forbidden fruit.

why was eve persuaded to disobey god?.

Separation of Powers

SoP, you make a few good points, although I don't see quite how the account of the creation in Genesis can be ascribed to support the birth of the Israelite nation, as this really begins with Abraham, who appears to show up from nowhere in the account of Genesis, completely dissociated from the previous accounts.

Eden

One must realize that the story of Adam and Eve, in fact, all the pre-Abrahamic mythology is Jewish in nature. It is an explanation of the singular importance of the Jew/Israelite in an existing world. Per the creation narrative, only the progenitors of the nation, i.e. Adam and Eve, were blessed to be in the garden, directly created by the Almighty with a singular relationship. His presence is felt by them in the Garden. They are special.

The story moves from there. The legend builds. A legend or myth structure shared over the centuries, from Adam to Abraham then to Moses, its supposed scribe. To say that the story is "completely disassociated from the previous accounts" is to reject the lineage from Adam to Abraham that is contained in the Torah itself. It is a package deal. All related. Adam to Abraham to Moses to NATION.

Take as an example the story of Pocahontas and Captain John Smith. The story (legend) of the first settlers (colonists). The story, although it is displaced from the Founding Fathers legend, is still repeated in history books as part of American History. It serves to distinguish the "american" as a trail blazer, confronting hardship, worthy of help from the indigenous. It also serves to promote the notion that the early settler was justified in displacing the indigenous. After all, Pocahontas marries John Rolfe and converts to christianity, if it was good enough for her (legend) then history would expect that her people would follow suit. It is all part of the folklore and legend ritual necessary in the foundation of a nation.

Hope that answers your question.

SOP

28

Is everyone required to be enrolled in the theocratic ministry school?

by hoser in

jw
friends

can a publisher "drop out" and still be in good standing?.

Separation of Powers

No..unless you have physical or mental issues that can be verified by a team of medical professionals. The group of medical professionals must provide documentation that states unequivocally that you cannot participate in the TMS. They must also state if you are restricted from serving as the householder or if that would be permissible. If you simply choose to "opt out" then others will notice and you might be construed as having been dealt with judicially and for that reason not allowed to participate even if you wanted to when you obviously did not want to in the first place. LOL

SOP

154

Why Eve sinned (WT 8/2013)

by EdenOne in

adamah brought up in another thread an issue i wasn't aware of, and i thought it merged well with something i've been pondering about.

it revolves around the deeper reasons why satan was successful in persuading eve to eat from the forbidden fruit.

why was eve persuaded to disobey god?.

Separation of Powers

OK, good points all. Let's see if I can address them quickly.

If the Garden of Eden myth is related to nation building, then there must be a key, something that helps us to unlock the fact that it is simply a myth with a baseline application. That key is found in the expression of Cain...yes, Cain, when he is confronted with the discipline of the Almighty. He states, "I will be a restless wanderer on the earth and whoever finds me will kill me." If, as the myth implies, Adam and Eve and their immediate offspring are the ONLY ones on earth, then why would Cain worry about being killed? Surely, everyone on earth, if confined to just Adam and Eve and their family knew what Cain had done. Their offspring would know what Cain had done. Why then would God put a mark on him so that "no one who found him would kill him?" The answer is simple, they were NOT the only people living on the earth. Proof of that is the expression that Cain went out "to the LAND of Nod, to the east of Eden." That expression is noteworthy, as the expression implies habitaction, geographic boundaries.

So...that is the key, the rest is relatively easy.

Tree of Knowledge, reason why nation NOT in blessed condition and have to put up with all the gentiles.

Tree of Life, the objective, the blessing that if they conform to God's commands, i.e the laws of the nation, then they will again be in a blessed state.

Garden of Eden, the objective, the reward for conformance to the nation

Sin because of Eve, the manner in which the patriarchal, male dominated society founded itself.

It is all pretty easily understood from that point on......

Just some thoughts,

SOP